John 17:5
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Primary
What this passage establishes
Jesus prays for the glory purposed for the Messiah before creation to be realized after His saving work.
Why it matters in the argument
The Son’s real human life explains prayer, obedience, growth, suffering, mediation, and limited human experience without making Jesus less than fully divine.
Apostolic connection
Apostolic teaching distinguishes the eternal Spirit from the genuine humanity God assumed. It does not turn that distinction into separate divine beings.
Common misunderstanding
The answer is not that Jesus pretended to pray or suffer. The incarnate Son truly lived a human life in relation to God while the fullness of God dwelt in Him.
How to use it in conversation
Name the human action honestly, then pair it with an indwelling or deity passage so neither side of the incarnation is erased.
Scripture connections
See which passages advance, clarify, or answer the argument
Response passages
Luke 1:35Scripture can speak of realities prepared in God’s purpose before creation. The praying Son asks for the messianic glory purposed before the world to be realized after His work.John 14:9-10John 17 is the prayer of the real Messiah completing His mission. The same Gospel says the Father dwells in Him and that seeing Him reveals the Father.Galatians 4:4Use this supporting passage to answer the objection without isolating one text.Hebrews 5:7-8Use this supporting passage to answer the objection without isolating one text.